removing that role does not get me what i am looking for. i would like to keep that there because that only looks at the user field. So itil and non role users will only be able to edit the delegates for themselves.

I looked at the sysapproval_approvers table and everything looks oob. Not sure what i would do or why.

the delegated related list is there and working.

The last thing i need it non role users to be able to edit every field except user field just like ITIL

thank you again for your response!!!